March 23, 2021
Florida Derby preview
Guests
- Shug McGaughey, trainer, Greatest Honour
- Saffie Joseph Jr, trainer, Collaborate
- Jack Wolf, co-owner Starlight Racing, Spielberg
- Mark Casse, trainer, Soup and Sandwich
Full transcript (note: transcript has not been edited)
Operator: Good day, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the NTRA Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a question-and-answer session. At which time, instructions will be provided. For operator assistance during the call, please press star zero.
I would now like to turn the meeting over to Ms. Hughes. Please go ahead, Ms. Hughes.
Alicia Hughes: Thank you so much, (James), and welcome everyone to this week’s NTRA Conference on the Road to the Triple Crown. This week we will be previewing the 70th running of the Grade 1 Florida Derby which will offer 170 total qualifying points towards the derby including 100 points to the winner. Saturday’s Florida Derby Program will feature a total six-graded stake races worth nearly $2 million at Gulfstream Park.
Today we are slated to be joined by Hall of Fame trainer, Mark Casse, who is set to send out Soup and Sandwich in the Florida Derby. Soup and Sandwich has been an impressive winner in each of his two starts. We are also slated to be joined by trainers, Saffie Joseph, Jr., who will saddle impressive maiden winner, Collaborate. And we’re going to check in with owner, Jack Wolf, of Starlight Stables, (quote) owner of graded stakes winner, Spielberg.
First up, however, we are fortunate enough to be joined by Hall of Famer Shug McGaughey who has the expected Florida Derby favorite in Greatest Honour. Greatest Honour has won his last three starts and he comes into this week in Florida Derby off a – off a win last time out in the Grade 2 Fountain of Youth Stakes.
Shug, thank you so much for joining us today.
Shug McGaughey: Thank you, Alice.
Alicia Hughes: Shug, I said, going back to the Fountain of Youth Stakes, it looks like there the Greatest Honour was kind of in trouble with about three furlongs to go in that race and then he was able to kind of demonstrate a very impressive kick in that stretch. How worried were you at that point watching the race and what did you kind of learn about him, that day with the way that he was able to rally?
Shug McGaughey: Well, as you can see, he wasn’t – he was – things weren’t going the way – the way I expect it. I mean in the Holy Bull everything went right then Fountain of Youth, everything went wrong. Once (Jose) got into the outside there by the quarter pole, whenever he got – need to pick up his (horse) was pretty quick and finished up quick. So you know, I think I learned that to overcome some controversy and still was good enough to finish and to win.
Alicia Hughes: Absolutely. That’s got to be so key, especially for these young horses when you’re thinking about how – the adversity that they probably going to handle when they get it against a 19 other friends in the derby starting gate.
Shug McGaughey: Well, that’s right. I mean that’s a – the 20-horse field, the derby is the tough thing and unless you’re on the horses on the lead and can carry a mile a quarter, the others are probably going to run into some problems during the race. The post position has a lot to do with it. First turn has a lot to do with it and then you can kind of sort yourself out going out on the backside but I thought it was a good learning experience for him and he was still able to win.
Alicia Hughes: And you know, I said he’s a horse – he ran well enough in his first few starts but it took him a bit to finally kind of get over that sort of hump. What do you think has been the difference between him becoming the – developing into the real leading derby contender that he is currently?
Shug McGaughey: Well, the biggest thing is two turns, I mean with his pedigree, he was begging to (ran farther). In hindsight, I think the two (7H) races, his first two races where he could finish and I think he learned a lot and then first time around two turns, he run really good. He’s still a little green going around two turns that was at Aqueduct. He just got beat and I think that helped him get to where – to where he is today.
He was sort of able to finish in his first two races and eat some dirt and same thing in the race at Aqueduct. He was back, probably a little bit farther than I thought he would be but he was able to make a good run and just couldn’t beat by the horse that was sort of on the leader, (follow) the place. And so, I think that – I think the race can help him get to where he is today.
Alicia Hughes: Sounds good. Well, Shug, I said I know we have a full slate of media joining us today. So with that, I will – we will check in with our operator to see if they have any questions for you.
Shug McGaughey: Thanks.
Operator: And ladies and gentlemen, at this time, we will go to questions. If you would like to ask a question, please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. Again if you would like to queue for question, please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad.
And our first question comes from the line of (Tim Reynolds). Go ahead please. Your line is open.
(Tim Reynolds): Thank you. Thank you, Shug, for doing this.
Shug McGaughey: Hi, (Tim), thanks.
(Tim Reynolds): I wanted to ask you, you’ve obviously had a very deliberate approach your whole career about what constitutes a derby horse. What is that process like for you in identifying who really belongs in that mix?
Shug McGaughey: Well, I think the races are the main thing for me. I don’t want to force – my idea is not to force a horse there but it is race that’s taking there and that’s what I’ve done with some of the other horses that I’ve run in the derby and especially with Orb. It was all question mark with him. You know, his allowance race down here in January. It was a question mark as the Holy Bull was up for Greatest Honour.
The Fountain of Youth was another step that we want to try to pass and Saturday in the Florida Derby will be another one I think. Maybe the races are starting to play in our hand a little bit now with – for Greatest Honour going mile-an-eighth, should suit him a lot better than a mile-a-sixteenth tier on a short – mile-and-sixteenth on the short – for the short post.
So, I’m looking forward to kind of getting him to stretch out. But my philosophy is unless we think we deserve to be there, we will be there.
(Tim Reynolds): Thank you, sir. Good luck Saturday.
Shug McGaughey: Thank you.
Operator: And ladies and gentlemen, again as a reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad.
Our next question comes from the line of (Ejay Clark). Go ahead please. Your line is open.
(Ejay Clark): Shug, thanks for being on the conference today, pleasure to talk to you again. I just wanted to ask you, a couple of years ago, 2019, you were on the derby trail Code of Honor, and a very good horse and became a very accomplished 3-year-old as we all know.
Greatest Honour, where would you – you won the derby in 2013 obviously that were talking about with Orb. Where would you put Code of Honor and Greatest Honour and Orb together as far as Orb was a derby winner but how about these other two? How this two particular horses sort of match up as a horse to get you to the Kentucky Derby?
Shug McGaughey: Well, that’s not easy question to answer but I’ll try to do the best. I think Greatest Honour’s future is in front of him and – as I also thought that with Code of Honor. Orb came to hand pretty quick. Once he broke his maiden, there are still some question marks with me about how good he was and then he – then he won that allowance race which I thought was going to be a difficult task.
And then, he won the Fountain of Youth when we’re backing him up sixteenth to the mile and he was able to win the Florida Derby and the Kentucky Derby. And I think with Greatest Honour, I think that still he got things to learn. I think this is going to be his friend once we get him stretched out (farther) with his pedigree and his style of running, his looks, his physical looks.
And with Code of Honor, there’s always sort of a question mark because he was a young horse. He wasn’t – he was foaled late May, he was always sort of immature in his running. I think that when we have to scratch him in the Breeder’s Cup at Louisville when he got sick, the morning of the Breeder’s Cup kind of set us back a little bit and then I probably hadn’t done enough with him when I ran him here in the first race in Much Macho Man or whatever he was and then I kind of learned something up – off of that.
And he ran great in the Fountain of Youth, then we came back in the Florida Derby and he just called (a speed) favor in racetrack for the horses on the lead that we all – that we couldn’t catch it. It took us out of our running style and where we had to kind of go after him – the horse a little bit earlier. And then, you know, in the Kentucky Derby, it was all that (Max) at the head of the stretch I think that compromised him also.
I don’t know if that calls in the race but when Maximum Security came back out, I mean came back in, he sort of (timed it) up on him a little bit and I think you kind of shot away from that little bit. And (Johnny) told me he had a little trouble getting him running again but then, they had a great summer and fall after that.
And I think that even though Greatest Honour is further along, racing-wise, than he was maybe at this time, I still think his future is in front of him.
(Ejay Clark): I realized that was kind of a long question there. I want to go back to, he’s won three in a row and since winning his – breaking his maiden at Gulfstream Park, he’s come back to win two very, very key races down there in the Holy Bull and the Fountain of Youth Stakes and won the first one as you said was easier, then he overcame (trouble) and win the Fountain of Youth.
How much – to be able to win these two very important preps to the Florida Derby and on to the Kentucky Derby, how much confidence does Greatest Honour bring you, coming in to the Florida Derby with the way he’s doing right now?
Shug McGaughey: Well, I got a lot of confidence in him. I mean these races will get more difficult as it go along and I think he can – I think he can overcome that kind of stuff. And I think with him winning here, going a mile-and-16th over this – over speed favoring racetrack on the short – with the short stretch because you stop in the 16th pole and says a lot about him.
I don’t think that’s what he wants to do. Last week or in the Fountain of Youth, he – the horses on the lead, Drain The Clock, who I think is a very, very good horse, he kind of open up, leaving the quarter pole. I thought (even) would kick in and we’re going to have a hard time catching him but he caught him at – he caught him in a hurry and he win by that far but he kind of win one pulled up. So, I think that was a sort of a compliment in its own right.
So, I still – in his races that he’s won down here this winter, I still don’t think that’s what he wants to do. I think that with his pedigree and the way he looks as I said earlier and his running style I think we’re going a mile-and-eight, he’s going to help and even go a mile-and-quarter is going to help even more.
(Ejay Clark): Shug, just one last question. Could you talk about – he’s homebred for Courtlandt Farms – can you talk about your relationship with the folks there at the farm?
Shug McGaughey: Well, this is new relationship. I really had horses for them for about 10 months now. I think the first ones came around the 1st of May or right after the derby and he was one of them and (Mr. M) has been easy. Ernie Retamoza who is on the farm there kind of runs the show and he’s been – I’ve known him or known of him for quite a while.
We had – he’s been very easy to work with as well as Mr. Adam – Mr. Adam has and I think that along with Greatest Honour, we’ve had a horse 10 for 10 I think who has stopped right now, I think is got a – who is second in national and second in Remsen, I think got a really good chance to come back. It will be really nice horse and I think there are some others around here too and so I predicted we’re going to have a good, long, meaningful relationship and to starting all pretty good again like Greatest Honour.
(Ejay Clark): Thank you, Shug. Good luck on Saturday.
Shug McGaughey: Thank you.
Operator: And again as a reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad.
And our next question comes from the line of (Tom Dicha). Go ahead please. Your line is open.
(Tom Dicha): Thank you. Thanks, Shug. If he would have win Saturday, he has done something no other horses done, win the three Gulfstream graded preps and the main reason is most people don’t run that many. Is this something about this horse? He’ll go into the derby I guess at seven or eight start which is unusual. Is it a matter of seasoning; is it a matter of conditioning, what made you decide this kind of regimen for the horse?
Shug McGaughey: Well, we just sort of procession-type thing. We broke his maiden down here in December, the next logical start was the Holy Bull and still there was questions out. For me, where does this horse stand and he wasn’t – in the Holy Bull he wasn’t the favorite. Prime Factor was and – so you know, I just – I thought he needed racing.
I think – I’m hoping that racing moves him along at every step but I mean you are right. He has raced a lot but he’s been able to – he has taken it and I kind of had in my mind if he’s this kind of a horse, that he’s going to need racing and also when we got him down here, that’s what we’ve done.
(Tom Dicha): Thank you.
Shug McGaughey: You’re welcome.
Alicia Hughes: Well, Shug, like I said it’s always – like I said is a great pleasure to have you on and I said it looks like you have a horses myriad top – very top contender for this year.
Shug McGaughey: Well, we hope so Alice and thank you for having me and we’re looking forward to Saturday and looking forward to the process. That’s what this is, it’s a process and – so we’ll see where he takes us.
Alicia Hughes: Perfect. Like I said – Shug, like I said, always a pleasure to have you on and get a chance to hear some wisdom from you. Thank you so much for doing this and best of luck this weekend.
Shug McGaughey: All right, thank you very much, bye.
Alicia Hughes: Thank you. Bye. And next up now we’re going to check in with trainer, Saffie Joseph, Jr., who has sort of derby contender Collaborate. Collaborate broke his maiden in pretty spectacular fashion at Gulfstream on February 27th, winning in gate to wire fashion by 12-1/2 lane. Saffie, thank you so much for joining us today.
Saffie Joseph: Thanks for having me on.
Alicia Hughes: Thank you so much for as I said for taking the time out for this. It goes without saying Collaborate really opened a lot of eyes with the way that he won last time out but I think I read where – your remarked were, you weren’t surprised to see him put forth that kind of an effort. What was it specifically that you were seeing from him that was giving you that kind of that level of confidence?
Saffie Joseph: Just was the way we trained him. Every time we work him before he ran, he would impress more and more and he like, we would ask him a bit more each week and each time he would deliver like he – it wasn’t fazing him. The way he moves and he just did things so effortless that when he got beat the first time, that was a big disappointment just because he had (inaudible) himself so much that I didn’t think he would get beat.
But I thought that day he got valuable experience and – I mean you always try to look for the positive and every negative. And the positive was that he got a lot of experience and he showed he had talents but until he came back on a run like, you never – you always want to see them do it first. It was more a relief second time out because we thought he had that kind of talent.
Alicia Hughes: Yes, and last year, you were able to get your first derby starting – derby started last year with New York Traffic who I believe finished eighth in the race. Given that last year was such a totally readjusted schedule due to COVID, is there anything at all that you can kind of take from that experience that you can apply maybe to this season?
Saffie Joseph: I mean just get in there last year, you learned a lot more. As far as – it’s her first time doing something, so you learned – obviously they’re going to have a (crowd) but one thing I did learn last year on the walkover, even without the crowd, the horses pretty got a little keyed up.
And this year like if we get back there, maybe put some earplugs in their ears going over or something like that (inaudible) from last year. But as far as just training, you’re going to do the same thing basically and hope your horse stays somewhat healthy into the race.
Alicia Hughes: Sounds good. As I said, with that Saffie, I will throw it back to our operator who will check in to see if the media has any questions for you today.
Saffie Joseph: OK.
Operator: And ladies and gentlemen, again as a reminder if you would like to queue up for a question, please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad.
And our first question comes from the line of (Jay Prisman). Go ahead please. Your line is open.
(Jay Prisman): Thank you. Saffie, how are you?
Saffie Joseph: Hey (Jay), how you’re doing?
(Jay Prisman): Good, thanks. I had a few questions. First off regarding Collaborate, is this the most expensive auction buy that’s coming to your barn to this point?
Saffie Joseph: Yes, he’s definitely the most expensive auction buy and we thank e Five Thoroughbreds and Three Chimneys for giving us the opportunity with him.
(Jay Prisman): And following to that, did you feel any sort of extra pressure to have a horse with that kind of price tag come into you or was it more of the appreciation of the opportunity or both?
Saffie Joseph: I mean just as far as you appreciate the opportunity present – he’s a big, good looking horse, I mean when you see him come in and you just – I was like, wow, as far as look but I didn’t mean they looked good, they’re going to be able to run good.
Once we started training him, we realized how good he was, then you start to feel the pressure because you’re trying to relay the information to the owners of how good he’s doing and you want the horse then to justify that.
Thankfully, the second time out, was his first time out got beat but I thought we got valuable experience. We probably did better at night at 7:00 p.m. because I was so disappointed I got him beat myself and to see him do it a second time out, that was kind of horse we thought he was.
(Jay Prisman): About a year ago at this time, you had approximately 65 to 70 horses in your barn. I’m wondering now with the numbers of – what your numbers are up to and where all you’re currently stabled at?
Saffie Joseph: We’re like 100-plus right now and obviously (inaudible) coming yet. We’re training for really good owners and last we make the training and when you train for the owners at rehab, you’re going to be successful and just show you the – do everything the right way in. You have the horses, the talent to – like Collaborate and some others. We’re thankful for the opportunity and we’re just keep trying to get better and better.
(Jay Prisman): And then I just wanted to check on a couple of your horses as to where they might be. Mischievous Alex is supposed to run in the Carter, right?
Saffie Joseph: Yes, Mischievous Alex is going to go to the Carter. Irad Ortiz (inaudible) Carter.
(Jay Prisman): And the Drain The Clock? I’m sorry, I apologize I think (inaudible) what you’re saying.
Saffie Joseph: Irad Ortiz – Irad Ortiz will ride Mischievous Alex in the Carter.
(Jay Prisman): Got you and then Drain The Clock goes to the Bay Shore?
Saffie Joseph: Yes, he’s going to go to the Bayshore and Irad Ortiz will ride him also in the Bay Shore.
(Jay Prisman): OK. And where is – how far away is New York Traffic from returning?
Saffie Joseph: He’s going to run very soon. He’s going to probably run in the next 10 days. He’s probably going to run at Aqueduct.
(Jay Prisman): Very well. All right, thank you for all of that. I appreciate it.
Saffie Joseph: Anytime, (Jay).
Operator: And again as a reminder, if you’d like to enter the Q&A queue, please press star and then one on your telephone keypad.
Our next question comes from the line of Jenny Reese. Go ahead please. Your line is open.
Jenny Reese: Hey Saffie, I actually have two more 3-year olds to ask you about. You got two horses going in the Jeff Ruby at Turfway which this year is a 100-point race to the winner. What can you tell us about Moonlite Strike and I also understand that you supplemented Awesome Jerry for the same race?
Saffie Joseph: Yes, Moonlite Strike, these are horses carried average for them in the Tampa Bay Derby, kind of jumps up and run above his odds, actually surprised us. He ran third at (Daisy) and picked up 10 points and he had one more from the race at Oakland. The owner wants to give him a chance to continue on, to see if he could pick up some more points.
We don’t feel like he’s the best horse in the class obviously but we feel like he has a chance if he was surrounded 1, 2, 3 could earn a spot in the derby line up and it’s – it would be nice for the owner to have a derby runner. So, we thought that Jeff Ruby was the best opportunity to pick up those points. It’s a 100-point race and it’s on a surface, it’s a (inaudible) has a lot of Turf pedigree in his breeding, so we figured with the Turf pedigree be in there, maybe (inaudible) be there and they help move him up a little bit.
Awesome Jerry, again we initially we weren’t going to keep him on the trail but some very like last minute thing that we’re deciding to give him one more chance again on the (Tapeta) hoping to – it would help improve – he needs improving and I hope it will help him.
Jenny Reese: Like if you finish, 1, 2, they should be in the derby and so that is the goal. I mean is the goal to get to the derby or is the goal that these are – you mentioned that kind of your average form, that these are horses that really could make noise in the derby.
Saffie Joseph: I mean it’s hard for me to tell you that they can make noise in the derby on what is shown so far but if they could like, like Moonlite Strike, he has 11 points. If he was to probably even run third, it will give him a chance to get him to the Kentucky Derby. Second, we’ll obviously guarantee it but it just having a runner for the owner to get to the derby, it will be nice opportunity for them and that’s what we’re trying to aim for too.
I mean you got to in the race, you never what’s going to happen but for me to tell you that, we have – if we get to the derby, that we think we win the Kentucky Derby, no. So it’s very farfetched but you’ve seen some crazier things happened on derby day than ever. So just to get there will be the first kind of goal and that’s what we’re trying to do right now.
Jenny Reese: Yes and in fact having gone through the derby, do you feel that more about the importance of trying to get owners that experience if they have a horse that earns the points versus saying, like Shug was just on and he said, I’m not going to list. I really, really think that I’ve got one of the top horses to beat.
But having gone through the derby, even – did it make you realize even more, if I can get these owners there, then they deserve the chance to loading the gate and see what happens.
Saffie Joseph: Yes, every owner is different. I mean every owner has a different perspective on their horse and someone just try to get to the derby I think is important. It’s hard to get there in general and so I try to do – I try do it what each owner wants.
For instance, Drain The Clock, he picked up 20 points in the Fountain of Youth and it was probably easy to pick up a couple more points to get into the derby but that ownership group, they don’t want to just get through derby if they can’t win the derby. So, we’re cutting them back and (tripling) taking a different route. So, each owner is different as far as what they want and we just try to do the best by each owner.
Jenny Reese: OK, final question. These horses are both by Liam’s Map. Is that just the sire that you had – that you like particularly or is there anything in – just coincidence or do you have a lot of Liam’s Map?
Saffie Joseph: Just coincidence basically. Obviously, Liam’s Map is off to a very good start and he’s had some good horses on the Turf also and that’s why we’re taking the – we think both of these horses may end up eventually being better on the Turf. The (Tapeta) being the close that you will get to the Turf as far as picking up points (inaudible) they read us. That’s why we’re giving this chance and going this route, hoping that helps elevate them form wise.
Jenny Reese: And this really is my final question but do you have riders lined up?
Saffie Joseph: Yes, Rafael Hernandez is going to ride Moonlite Strike and there’s no rider lined up yet for Awesome Jerry because it’s such a late decision. We’re just still in the work to trying to figure it out exactly.
Jenny Reese: OK, all right, great. Thank you. I appreciate it.
Saffie Joseph: Thank you, Jenny.
Operator: Our next question comes from the line of (Danny Brewer). Go ahead please. Your line is open.
(Danny Brewer): Saffie, what do you like most about Collaborate?
Saffie Joseph: I think I like everything about him. There’s not much to dislike him. He’s a great looking horse. Again, I said that, it doesn’t always carryover to the horse being good but you look at him and he – the way he stands and his presence, height and size, when he works. I mean he’s everything – I think he’s most definitely the most talented horse that we ever had in our hands. I mean his ability – there’s a lot of ability, (you know).
We’re little behind schedule, so we’re asking him to do something that is going to be a tall task but he seems like he has that ability to overcome it. And the first time again he beat was in – in hindsight was a blessing in disguise because we – he got a lot of education from that.
He was actually more tired the first time out than he was second time out. We just hope he can build on that and show up again and run the similar race. If he does, we think where – we have a horse that’s very capable.
(Danny Brewer): You mentioned his work – it looks like his works are all really, really strong and (inaudible) win, frontrunner, he was out front. Speed, you really, really like his speed?
Saffie Joseph: Yes, he’s – I mean he’s very versatile. I mean first time out, he missed the break, he came from behind, he took all the dirt and then second time out, just naturally he sat forwardly and he kept (cruising). I think that’s one of his advantages. He had the high cruising speed and he stays pretty strongly. Ideally, we would like to – on Saturday to break (hair) from that and be in the forward position and just run his race.
(Danny Brewer): Well, I appreciate your time then. I wish you the best of luck.
Saffie Joseph: Thank you very much.
Operator: Our next question comes from the line of (Tom Gesha). Go ahead please. Your line is open.
(Tom Gesha): Saffie, it’s a widespread belief that Collaborate would be on the – (off the way one), his maiden race. Do you see him on the (leader)? I guess certainly, very prominent early.
Saffie Joseph: Yes, I would hope once he breaks away from the (inaudible). I mean (Tyler) is running in two things now and we’re just going to leave it up to him. You would think you would have a forward position and whether they be on the lead or near lead. I think that’s where ideally we like to be where he’s comfortable like I think is – from the race run so forward, we’ve seen – yes, there’s a high possibility he could be on the lead or 1, 2, 3.
(Tom Gesha): And I’m sure you want to win the race but is one of the goals to get the points like second would probably get you into the derby, if let’s say Greatest Honour was clearly is going to win the race, would you go hard for second or look to the future?
Saffie Joseph: I mean we like to obviously run it or if we were to run second, then we have to (stop) at the ownership group and see what kind of second are we running as far as – if it was a good second or a poor second I mean. But, I would think with this one, if we didn’t have a chance that we think we couldn’t win the derby, you may not – we may not push that row. Hopefully, we don’t have to think …
(Tom Gesha): OK.
Saffie Joseph: … be in that position hopefully (inaudible)
(Tom Gesha): Yes. OK, very good.
Saffie Joseph: Hopefully, we can win it.
(Tom Gesha): OK, well thank you.
Saffie Joseph: You’re welcome.
Alicia Hughes: Well Saffie, again, I said I know that there’s a lot of demands on your time these days. As always, so once again, I want to thank you so much for coming on and spending your time and sharing your thoughts with our media today. Continued best of luck to you – to you and your stable and hopefully we get to see you in (Louisville) in a few weeks.
Saffie Joseph: Thank you, sounds good.
Alicia Hughes: Thanks again.
Saffie Joseph: Take care.
Alicia Hughes: OK. And next up we’re going to check in with owner Jack Wolf of Starlight Racing which has become a regular on the derby trail each season including last year when they co-owned derby winner and eventual first of the year, Authentic.
The Starlight team is back again this season with Spielberg, winner of the Grade 2 Los Alamitos Derby in December and who most recently finished second in the Southwest Stakes.
Jack, thank you so much for joining us today.
Jack Wolf: Thanks for having me, Alicia.
Alicia Hughes: I said always a pleasure to have an excuse to dial your phone number. So, I said with Spielberg, this is a horse, he’s been pretty consistent in his eight-career starts. I think he’s finishing the top three six times. What do you think though is the key for him to getting over that – the hump here and really kind of cementing himself as the top derby contender?
Jack Wolf: Well, I think the distance in mile-and-an-eighth was suited. His last three races had been a mile-and-a-sixteenth and his pedigree would suggest the further he goes, the better. Of course, the mile-and-an-eighth down there at the Gulfstream and you correct me I’m wrong but I think there’s going to be probably 9 or 10 horses in there.
So, a good post is going to be in part and he got left at post last time, so. All that stuff throwing together could be a real challenge but we’re heading down there on Wednesday, so we’ll find out.
Alicia Hughes: And you know, the form of the West Coast horses so far has held a pretty well on these prep races. Obviously, we saw it with Hot Rod Charlie this past weekend, with (Inaudible) toward Spielberg himself running second to the divisional champion in Essential Quality. How much added confidence that does give you about, where he kind of potentially fits in with this group of sophomores?
Jack Wolf: I think he fits in this race and he got beat by four lengths by Essential Quality as you said and Greatest Honour I guess is one or two on most of the derby list. So – but you look at his last race, Beyer 90, he might had to miss Gulfstream race but there again, let’s wait and see.
Alicia Hughes: Sounds good, Jack. With that, I will throw it back to our operator who will check in and see if the media has any questions for you today.
Jack Wolf: OK, Alicia, thanks.
Operator: And ladies and gentlemen, again as a reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. And we’ll pause for a moment while we compile the Q&A roster.
And our first question comes from the line of (Ejay Clark). Go ahead please. Your line is open.
(Ejay Clark): Thank you. Jack, good to have you back on the teleconference and good to speak to you again. Jack, I want to ask you, you won the Florida Derby in 2002 with Harlan’ Holiday with your wife, Laurie and then in 2018 with Audible, came back – or rather for 2018 but with Audible in partnerships. So can you talk a little bit about the first time around and then with the partnerships which has been what we’ve seen in the last few years and very successful I might add.
Jack Wolf: Well, thank you, (Ejay). Yes, Laurie and I start off doing this by ourselves. In 2000, we brought a group of yearlings which we’re lucky not to have (inaudible) in there, and unfortunately, he came in second to (Booklet).
I think in the two races with Florida – the Florida Derby but unfortunate not to win that and then go ahead and win the Blue Grass and came in as a favorite, I think he ran seventh in the derby but has been new to the game, it’s very exciting and what a horse he turned out to be and a great stallion.
But after about three or four years, Laurie and I decided to spread the risk and bring in a few of our friends into the partnership and it started growing to about 12 people right now.
But having the partners doesn’t make it any less exciting to me, anyway. It’s good that with Audible as it was with Harlan’s Holiday.
(Ejay Clark): And with all these horses (and Authentic) last year, you’ve been keeping the hopes of all the natives winning the Kentucky Derby alive, Jack. Would you talk about that a little bit as well?
Jack Wolf: Well, Jim Shircliff is one of our partners and I think this is what he (inaudible) for. But of the 12 partners we have, probably six or seven of them are from Louisville, an extra special thing. And we’ve been fortunate enough to have a number of entries through the years. Unfortunately, it didn’t run very well until the last few years. But it is important to our Louisville partners for sure.
(Ejay Clark): Thank you, Jack. Appreciate it.
Jack Wolf: OK. Thank you, (Ejay).
Operator: And again, as a reminder, if you’d like to ask a question, please press star then one on your telephone keypad. Our next question comes from the line of Jenny Reese. Go ahead please. Your line is open. And (Jenny), if your line is on mute, please unmuted your line. Your line is open.
Jenny Reese: Yes. I got dogs here, so I kept it on mute. Sorry. OK, Jack, I was asking you about how you went from – you and Laurie – to Starlight, but now also Starlight you’ve got like a lot of partners, other partnerships on these horses.
So, just for the realization that to play the game, I mean, Spielberg’s million dollars, Tarantino, I’m going to ask about is $610,000 that just – you get more opportunities this way. I mean, is that – how did that sort of come about that you now – you’re mainly partnerships, right, not just your own, but teaming with other guys?
Jack Wolf: Yes, Jenny. You and I’ve known each other from the get-go. And as you know, we would go the sales to buy yearlings in the early years. We prided ourselves of buying the stock in the 150- to 200-range.
And over the last three or four years, noticing the horses running on Saturday or in the higher price range, it just so happen that Tom Ryan from SF approached me representing Starlight to see if we want to go in this new venture. And obviously, the Bloodstock agents that we have employed came up with a great group the first year. And it looks like there’s some nice horses in this group.
But to answer your question, I think that’s the reason why we did it. Whether it continues to work, we’ll see.
Jenny Reese: Tarantino is interesting in that he started with Bob Baffert and he started off on the grass with Bob Baffert. So, was that because you were all looking for a mile-race for him at Delmar and that’s what’s on turf? Or yes, how did that happen?
And then of course, you send him to – he ended up going to (Rudy) and then you started him on (Dorothy’s life) too. So, what can you tell me about Tarantino going into the Jeff Ruby Saturday?
Jack Wolf: Well, I don’t really know who’s in the field. But you would think with his turf history that the (surf) is up there with (soothing). I think he’s got something like nine points, but (Gertrude Rudy) once we ship him back. At the time, we didn’t feel like he was fitting out in the West Coast races and he’s come along I think very well and (Rudy’s) done a great job. But the (turf to dirt) thing and now the synthetic surface should prove interesting and I hope it does.
Jenny Reese: Did you all think he was the grass horse? Is that why you started on the turf?
Jack Wolf: Bob made that decision and never second guess Bob, as we all know. But for whatever reason, he started him on the turf and ended up on the dirt as we all see. Yes.
Jenny Reese: You all are approaching the Jeff Ruby is – it’s 100 points to the winner for the first time. If it’s just one-two, he’s in. I mean, we talked about this before. You’ve won the derby and then you’ve also finished up the track in the derby. So, like what would this horse has to do to be one of the top – to get into the starting gate for the Kentucky Derby whether yet if he has a point?
Jack Wolf: That’s a good question. We have talked about this. And I’ve read a quote on Bob. Of course, he doesn’t train the horse any longer. But he made the statement that the owners get excited about having a horse in the derby until they run up the track and it’s no fun for anybody.
But we’ll see how he does now and his numbers fit. And Tom Ryan would be the man that would decide that and working with Rudy and seeing that they feel like the horse fits in the ranks.
Jenny Reese: Yes. But you’ve also said that same quote that you’ve said Bob said. You said something similar that it’s …
Jack Wolf: Yes. (Inaudible) it’s the truth. But it’s fun to be in these big 100-point races, and at least have the option if he runs well and gets a good number then I’m sure we’ll go ahead and race him. But there, again, it would be up to Tom and Rudy at that point.
Jenny Reese: OK. Thanks, Jack. Appreciate it.
Jack Wolf: Good to talk to you, Jenny. Thanks.
Alicia Hughes: So, Jack, again, thank you so much as always for being so willing to come on our calls and share your thoughts with the media like I said, became an annual tradition having you – seeing you guys on the derby trail each season and I look forward to hopefully see you guys in a few weeks in Louisville.
Jack Wolf: OK, Alicia. Thanks.
Alicia Hughes: Thanks again, Jack.
Jack Wolf: Bye-bye.
Alicia Hughes: Bye. And last but certainly not least today, we’re going to catch up with hall-of-fame trainer, Mark Casse, who already has one derby contender in Tampa Bay Derby winner, Helium. It is now seeking to get Soup and Sandwich into the mix.
Mark, thank you so much for joining us today.
Mark Casse: Thanks for having me.
Alicia Hughes: Good to hear from you as always. You’re one – you’re never afraid to take some bold swings with your horses especially when they’re doing well. And I think this is certainly a bold ask for Soup and Sandwich this weekend.
Even though it was against small field, what impressed me so much about his win last time out at Tampa?
Mark Casse: Well, I think, Alicia, I think though it was a small field, he did prove that he could run two turns. The other thing was he showed that he could shut off and (rate). And Antonio was extremely impressed with him and he’s a veteran rider, and I’m never heard him so excited about a horse.
And he ran – he ran fast. He ran four-fifths off the track record even in the three-horse field plus with a slow pace. So, you’re right. It’s a big ask. But I think that race – getting that race under his belt was very important.
And look, hey, everybody is – it’s called derby fever and it’s definitely – it’s something that’s contagious and you get it. And I feel like now is the time to give him a try. And if it doesn’t work, we’ll look elsewhere. So, it looks like it’s going to be a fairly big field.
We went to a guy that we’ve had a lot of luck with in the past and Johnny Valazquez is going to ride him.
Alicia Hughes: Yes. You’re certainly in good hands there with Johnny B. at the helm. From a pace standpoint, what do you kind of maybe expect him to be this Saturday?
Mark Casse: Well, I think especially at Gulfstream, the post is going be very important and the clean break is going to be important. If he breaks well, Johnny’s an aggressive rider. And he’s going to have him pretty close to the pace. And this horse does have some speed.
So, my hope is a clean break and that we can have a (stocking) position. We’re not going to be very far out of it, at least not if things go as planned.
Alicia Hughes: Sounds good. And with that, Mark, I’m going to throw it back to our operator who will check in and see if the media has any questions for you today.
Mark Casse: Thank you.
Operator: And ladies and gentlemen, if you’d like to ask a question at this time, please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad.
And our first question comes from the line of Brock Sheridan, go ahead please. Your line is open.
Brock Sheridan: Hey, Mark. Nice talking to you today. I want to ask you specifically about Soup and Sandwich being Florida bred. You’re a long time resident of Ocala, training for Mrs. Weber. Talk a little bit about the extra price you might have winning Florida Derby with a Florida bred.
Mark Casse: Well, obviously, I grew up in Ocala, 55 years there. And Live Oak has been around almost as long. So, this is special. Mrs. Weber was a very dear friend of my father’s. So, I’ve always – Live Oak has always been part of my life and I’ve been watching it for a long time. So, maybe it’s a little bit extra special.
Brock Sheridan: Thank you.
Operator: Our next question comes from the line of Dan Ralph. Go ahead please. Your line is open.
Dan Ralph: Thank you. As always, Mark, thank you so much. Where about…
Mark Casse: Good to hear from you, Dan.
Dan Ralph: Hi. I’m glad to hear from you as well. Where in ideally would you like this horse to run when the draw is done?
Mark Casse: Mid pack probably like everybody else would I rather. The closer we draw inside the more important the break is. Outside is going to be extremely tough for anybody because you’re going to have – even if you break well, you’re going to have to use a lot of your horse to get some positioning.
So, post distance is always important. It’s even more important in Gulfstream. So, I’d like to see maybe five or six. That being said, my luck in the draw goes anywhere, we’ll probably be on the outside. So, we’ll see.
Dan Ralph: True. Any concern about distance?
Mark Casse: I don’t think so. I think he proved the other day that he could do – he can get the distance. (He’s by) into mid shifts, but he’s out the (inaudible) mare and he’s a little different than a lot in the mid shifts. He’s a little leggier.
I don’t think. I think he proved that the other day that the distance is not – shouldn’t be too much of an issue.
Dan Ralph: Terrific. Thank you and be safe.
Mark Casse: Thank you.
Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, once again, if you’d like to ask a question, please press star and then one on your telephone keypad.
Our next question comes from the line of E.J. Clark. Go ahead please. Your line is open.
E.J. Clark: Thank you. Mark, thanks for being on the conference today. Good to talk to you.
Mark Casse: Thanks.
E.J. Clark: I would like to ask you – Soup and Sandwich is sort of the buzz horse coming into the Florida Derby. And it seems like there’s just a lot of things being written about him. And does that sort of go along with your feelings now this horse is coming up to the race in the Florida Derby?
Mark Casse: Absolutely. Any time you have a horse, it’s two for two. He runs fast. And you know what, he’s training extremely well right now. So, I think – I think everybody likes the unknown. And there’s some unknown here with him.
And so, yes, I’m glad to hear there is buzz. I know there’s buzz in my camp. So, we’ll see. Hopefully, we live up to the buzz.
E.J. Clark: All right. Kind of like good. I just wanted to ask you about Helium and three-for-three coming out of the Tampa Bay Derby victory. You have to feel good about that. But coming from the Distorted Humor and Thunder Gulch family screening distance and classic distance, just your thoughts about that, and he’s doing if you could just talk about how Helium is doing right now.
Mark Casse: Well, I’m extremely excited about Helium. To me, thinking back over my 40 years of training horses, I don’t know that there’s been ever a horse that; one, so impressively and overcame so much in the 40 years I’ve been training.
I’ll be the first to tell you that I don’t know that the Tampa Bay Derby was the strongest field, but it was a good field. And I mean, here’s a horse, he’d never run on the dirt, hadn’t run in four-and-a-half months, never had ran around two turns.
So, you add all those things and any kind of good race would have been – would have been a big positive. Then, you add how much farther – I mean, he’s trip – he was so wide in those turns. He overcame so much that it’s just – that performance amazes me.
We had a friend, obviously, is 84 buyers, not a true indication of how good the race was. I can’t think of a maker horse, the older horse, that won earlier in the day. But he ran a 97-buyer and he ran second in the fifth (usher) we did.
But we have a – I have a friend that went and used the track as through (AquaBase). They don’t give you the feet. They don’t give you the feet. They give you miles per hour average. He went and figured it out. And to his calculations, we actually ran two lengths faster than that horse.
So, if you do that on a buyer point, we’re somewhere around 100 or 100 – a little plus. He ran three on the Thoro-Graph, which if you look at the derby contenders that three on a Thoro-Graph puts him right there with the big boys, and this is all off of four-and-a-months.
So, as you can tell, I’m excited about him. I’m not concerned at all about the two months between races or going a mile-and-a-quarter. He ran about a mile-and-an-eighth the other day. So, I’m not worried at all.
I think he’s an amazing horse. And if he can move forward again, he’s going to surprise everybody on how good he runs.
E.J. Clark: Yes. I know you said being so wide there, a lot faster than the 84 buyer’s speed figure.
Mark Casse: Yes. The 84 is not even …
E.J. Clark: That’s coming out (inaudible).
Mark Casse: Yes. Like I said, I think his three on the Thoro-Graph puts him 100-plus buyer normally. So, that puts him right there with everybody and he should improve given all the things that he had overcome.
E.J. Clark: Just one final question, Mark. You ran him twice, last year seven furlongs on the synthetic up in Woodbine. Just what was the decision after that to ship him down to Florida over to Tampa Bay to run the Tampa Bay Derby, just (inaudible).
Mark Casse: Well, a lot of things happened. So, he was supposed to run in the Grey, which is the synthetic race in Canada. And we had him in and it snowed and they cancelled that day. Then, they were going to run it again and because of COVID, it was canceled – the racing was canceled.
I then sent him to New Orleans because I was going to go that route, the Louisiana Derby route. And we were all ready for, I think, the (La Comp) and the work before the (La Comp), we’ve raced him and he wrenched his ankle.
So, as I often do, I keep the majority of our horses at our training center in Ocala because that’s where I spend a lot of time. We sent him back there so I could kind of evaluate him. And after about a week, he was training so good. I (braised) him and I said to the (green), I said, there’s no way this horse can’t run on the dirt.
So then, I went ahead and sent him to Palmetto as we often do. We’ve had a lot of luck over the last 10 years at Tampa coming off the Palmettos and we just kind of felt like at some point we got to give this horse a try on the dirt. You train it so well and the Tampa Bay Derby, the timing worked and that’s why we did it.
I just wanting – although I was wanting out of him was a good positive race. And then, I thought if he did that then we’d get him one more race and see whether he was a derby horse. But I mean his last performance was so amazing that I don’t see any reason to run him again.
E.J. Clark: Mark, I want to wish you the best of luck and thanks for the time. Appreciate it.
Mark Casse: Thanks for the questions.
Operator: Our next question comes from the line of Jenny Reese. Go ahead please. Your line is open.
Jenny Reese: Hey, Mark. I want to ask about Gretzky the Great.
Mark Casse: Now, I’m going to run back in Kentucky Downs, Jenny.
Jenny Reese: Well, I am hoping (inaudible). I see all that turf in there. But in the meantime, before we get to that, you are running him obviously in the Jeff Ruby, which is 100-point race to the winner now.
You had, of course, at Palmettos. You shipped him to Turfway for the Battaglia. I mean, were you sort of thinking all along about the Jeff Ruby? And are you looking at the Kentucky Derby as a stepping stone? Or he’s an Ontario bred, are you looking at it as a stepping stone to the Queen’s Plate?
Mark Casse: Well, the reason I sent Gretzky to Turfway is the reason that everybody – and you’ve heard me talk about it a million times – I’m a big believer in (Trepida). I just think it’s much easier on him.
And after the Breeders’ Cup, Gretzky had some minor ankle surgery. And so, we kind of – we missed some time with him. And I knew that it was – I was struggling and I knew if I was going to make a dirt start that I was going to have to race him two or three more times.
So, the reason I went to the Battaglia was just simply because it’s not as tiring and I thought he would – I knew. I was even concerned he was going to be a little short for the Battaglia. But I thought it would help him move forward. And then, the Jeff Ruby was definitely next step.
To answer your question, is the derby a possibility? I wouldn’t rule it out. He would have to give us a tremendous performance though in the Jeff Ruby and then we’d have to come up with a plan on the derby.
But Queen’s Plate is definitely in our crosshairs. And with him being a Canadian bred, it’s a million dollars and it’s such a prestigious race. We’ve been fortunate enough to win it a couple of times. We’d like to win it again.
Jenny Reese: Yes. So, his Battaglia, how do you analyze that? He had the (rail) sort of pressured (tired) like. Do you think he was (inaudible)?
Mark Casse: Yes. I thought – oh yes. He definitely – he definitely was a little short, unfortunately. Well, we drew the one (hole) and I asked the rider. I said, look, I want you to put him into the race. I don’t like from the one (hole) of letting horses run by you and then they go in front of you and you end up – next thing you know, you’re last going in.
So, we asked him to run away from there. And unfortunately, he caught some pressure from long shot that kind of run ahead and had with him for three-quarters-of-a-mile he put that horse away and then two more came at him, two more that had to be a lot fitter than we were, and I was proud of our horse.
I thought he tried and ran hard, staying back. But more importantly, he’s trained very well since then. And I’m excited. I’m very happy we picked up Chris Landeros to ride him. And in my opinion, nobody rides Turfway Park like Chris Landeros. So, I think that’s a big plus for us.
Jenny Reese: Yes. (Inaudible) come on your radar that it was 100 points to the winner because (inaudible) I didn’t realize that, so (inaudible).
Mark Casse: I’ve always – I pay – I watch that and I knew that so.
Jenny Reese: You knew all along. OK. And then final question, you had Tapeta, right, at your place, your training center?
Mark Casse: No. Ours is just dirt.
Jenny Reese: It is …
Mark Casse: Our training center is dirt. I wish I could afford Tapeta now. But if we want to do any type of Tapeta training, we can always – OBS is about five miles from our training center, so we can always go over there and do that.
Jenny Reese: What does pedigree Nyquist (inaudible) mare? Is there any reason he shouldn’t handle dirt?
Mark Casse: He should love the dirt. It’s just when you have a Canadian bred and you – first, they need to be – it only makes sense for him to be at Woodbine. And when you’re at Woodbine, the biggest race at Woodbine for a two-year-old is Summer Stakes.
And so, we tried him on the grass. There’s a lot of great prepping there. And once he got winning, I mean, you sure couldn’t – (inaudible) going to jump on the dirt right now. At some point – at some point, we’re going to try him on the dirt.
So, him and – actually, him and Helium were work mates a couple times. And I thought they were pretty comparable.
Jenny Reese: Yes. This really is the final question. But Anderson Farms bred him – I don’t see where there’s a say that he went through an auction.
Mark Casse: Gretzky?
Jenny Reese: Yes.
Mark Casse: Gretzky was, I believe …
Jenny Reese: I mean, is that (inaudible) anyway?
Mark Casse: I think he was an RNA at the October Fasig-Tipton sale and then we bought him privately after that …
Jenny Reese: OK.
Mark Casse: … if my memory serves me correctly.
Jenny Reese: Right. Good deal. Thanks and I do expect to him in Kentucky Downs in September.
Mark Casse: Well, I knew that. That’s what I’ve – OK.
Jenny Reese: Thanks, Mark.
Mark Casse: OK.
Alicia Hughes: And so, Mark, it looks like last bit of questions from the media. Again, thank you so much as always for coming on and joining us today. The Derby Trail is always better when you are a part of it.
Mark Casse: Well, thanks for having me. Have a good day.
Alicia Hughes: Thanks again, Mark. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
Mark Casse: Bye.
Alicia Hughes: And everyone, that will do it for today’s NTRA National Media Teleconference. And audio file of this call will be up later today on NTRA.com and a transcript should be there within about 24 hours.
Want to thank our guests once again today; trainer Shug McGaughey, trainer Saffie Joseph, owner Jack Wolf, and trainer Mark Casse. Thank you to all of our media for coming on and joining us today. And now, back to our operator, (James), to wrap things up.
Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, this now concludes today’s conference call. You may now disconnect.
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